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July 19, 2007

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» Slaying Bob fromHR from allumination
Was still pondering yesterdays post about weakness / achievement gaps when I went to read SF Diplomat, where Jonathan McCalmont (hope Ive capitalised in the right places) is fascinating on the content of fantasy: Why does fantasy p... [Read More]

» On Economic Fantasy from The Wizard of Duke Street
There's an excellent post up on SF Diplomat about economic fantasy. This is the kind of stuff I'd want to read, and it's why, of all the fantasy books I've ever read, Raymond E. Feist's Rise of a Merchant Prince... [Read More]

Comments

Drew Shiel

I've very little regard for the quality of Ryamond E. Feist's writing these days (although he was one of the first fantasy writers I ever read, and therefore a pretty major influence on me), but his Rise of a Merchant Prince is one of my favourite books, topic-wise. And the Empire series he co-wrote with Janny Wurts is very much about a political/trade rise to power, rather than magically saving the world.

Jonathan McCalmont

Hi Drew :-)

Feist is an interesting writer. I'm not a huge fan (though I haven't read the books you suggest) but I think he is one of those people that has the SFnal instinct when it comes to fantasy (as Patrick pointed out upstream, it's common among people approaching fantasy from an RPG perspective and Feist is very much involved in the RPG world).

I'm thinking in particular of the Riftwars books that he co-wrote with someone who was a grad student in strategic studies. You don't need that level of expertise in most fantasy and Feist by that stage had written stuff on his own anyway so it's not as though he really needed a writing partner.

I think that the desire to be "realistic" in fantasy is what underpins my talk of economic fantasy but a book that's all about the economic world rather than the realities of a military world (like the Riftwars stuff) would be quite different.

Drew Shiel

I've experimented with realistic-economic stuff in my fantasy campaign world, but most of my players aren't all that interested - and it's one area of creative work in which you really do have to work with the audience you have. :)

I do keep on wishing that an MMO in the line of a fantasy EVE Online would appear. EVE is all about the economy.

Jonathan McCalmont

Yes, EVE, much like the Elite games that influenced it, is all about supply and demand economics and running a business.

To a certain extent that's true of all MMORPGs though. On a cynical level you have gold farmers who pick up a natural resource and sell it but even at a more acceptable level, adventuring is about an economic cycle.

You adventure in order to become more powerful. In order to become more powerful you need money. In order to get money you have to farm not just XP but also money and objects.

The difference between the gold farmer and the legitimate MMORPG user at the end of the day is that the gold farmer does it for cash and the gamer does it for in-game prestige and "fun".

This is one of the most interesting things about RPGs. Despite borrowing the language of epic fantasy with its good and evil and ancient gods and prophecies, it's mostly (particularly dungeon crawling) about cash and power.

This is why I think of most RPGs as exponents of bareknuckle objectivism where the truely special are willing to take big risks and reap those big rewards. The average RPG adventuring party is, much like a corporation, psychopathic if you look at the way it behaves. If you don't believe me, you try inserting a town council full of village elders into your game and have them try to take 40% of what the adventurers earn in tax and see how far it gets you :-)

Enron's board of directors have NOTHING on your average adventuring party.

Serdar

I'm coming late to this party but I did want to stick in a few cents.

I recently finished a fantasy novel of my own, and one of the first things I tried to do was do away with what I felt were a lot of the garbage trappings of other fantasy novels. The whole thing is not about finding a scroll or an amulet, but about someone finding himself, within himself (and also finding someone else that character had lost some time ago). Whenever the standard fantasy tropes like magic and glorified violence reared their heads, I tried to take those things and turn them around and make them about the characters and not the setting.

I don't know if I succeeded, but I'd like to think I'm at least aware of he way these issues can manifest and not write just another boring dungeon crawl.

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