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August 09, 2007

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Ian Sales

I'm not sure I agree with this. There are many genre authors who have had novels published... but never sold a short story. There are also authors who have published (almost) as many collections as they have novels - Michael Swanwick, Lucius Shepard, Ian Watson, for example.

Writing successful short fiction doesn't necessarily mean you're "ready" to write a novel, but published short stories are exposure - and so useful when it comes time to try and sell that novel...

Patrick H

Who gives a shit if the great short story writer doesn't write a great novel? Great writers can do more in short space than most writers can in a 17-volume series - eg, Bruce Sterling, Ted Chiang, Steve Aylett, Greg Egan, Jeff Van Demeer.

It's an end to itself, and just because it doesn't generate a truck load of revenue for global conglomerates is no reason to dismiss it (I would say it's a reason to embrace it). Short-stories are still more important to the scene - and the development of the genre - than, say, online review sites.

Patrick H

Paul Raven

Once again, I'm going to drag up my music industry comparison. The short story markets are like the toilet circuit, where young acts who don't make mainstream commercial product can learn the craft, become part of the scene, and attract the attention of the core alternative audience; all necessary for an artist who isn't thrust into the limelight by the corporate suits. Which is why I think it would be a terrible thing for the market to die off, just as its sad to see the 'toilet circuit' venues being closed down due to noise complaints, or being snapped up by subsidiaries of ClearChannel. The scene is hugely important, but it needs to look at *why* the decline is happening.

Patrick H

It never recovered from the death of pulp. It coasted by on inertia and nostalgia for a generation, but that is now pretty much all used up. The short-story (in whatever genre) simply isn't a "pop" form anymore. It's an academic/literary form and the audience is accordingly very small.

Patrick H

MattD

And of course what publishing novels is actually for is pre-release marketing and focus-group testing of stories before the writer can sell them on to Hollywood... ;)

Jonathan McCalmont

Paul - That's the thing though. I don't think that anyone is getting "signed" off the back of short fiction any more. I get the impression that these days it's more about agents and recommendations from other authors.

I think that if the "core audience" for short fiction isn't big enough to healthily sustain a magazine then it's unlikely to matter to publishers all that much.


Patrick - Yes, I suspect you're probably right. It's a literary form of its own right. It's essentially parasitical on the more populist genre novel business but it's really its own medium with its own scene.

A.R.Yngve

Good question!

Here's another good question:
Big Brother (and reviews of Big Brother, incidentally) -- do we need it?

Jonathan McCalmont

Heh... meeeow! You bitch!

Fair point. I've shut up about Big Brother now anyway.

Patrick H

>>> I don't think that anyone is getting "signed" off the back of short fiction any more. I get the impression that these days it's more about agents and recommendations from other authors.

I know that Lavie Tidhar has been approached by agents and publishers interested in looking at a novel manuscript based entirely on his short fiction output of the last couple of years. (It's been a problem for him as he has not had a manuscript to show until recently.) I'm also surprised you haven't read the accounts of agents and publishers hovering around Ted Chiang every time he turns up at a con hoping that they'll be the ones that sign him.

There is a problem in attributing the "sell" for authors with long histories of short fiction (eg, and Neal Asher and Charlie Stross were stalwarts of the short-fiction scene ofor a decade or more before becoming novellists - is this evidence for or against your position?) but I think it's clear that exposure in the "scene" is very important when trying to get somewhere with a novel. At the very least, a letter of enquiry that starts "I won the short story Hugo last year..." is likely to open more doors than one that starts "I am another unpublished dumbfuck please throw me a cookie."

You are also ignoring (or ignorant of) its importance as a venue to learn your craft and develop your ideas. Reynold's conjoiner universe stuff and Peter F Hamilton's Greg Mandel books were both based on early work published in Interzone and Asimovs. Without the short story markets, where would that development have occurred?

I think you are pretty much 100% wrong on this one in just about every regard, and display a startling ignorance of the recent history of the genre. It's an accident of history that SF has a solid fan base with a nostalgic longing for the days of the pulps - even crime appears to have shaken that off - but short form SF and fantasy is no more pointless than mainstream writers finding early exposure in Granta or anthologies from Serpents Tail.

Patrick H

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