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October 08, 2007

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Liam

Apart from being surrounded by armed guards why should any Saudi be offended by American compounds? I have a mosque "dumped" in my hometown. The people who go there dress very differently from me and the Mosque itself has architectural stylings that make it stick out like a sore thumb. Many of the Mosque attendees eat halal meat which I consider a unnecessarily cruel form of butchery. Furthermore many at the Mosque do not speak English or mix with the local community. However, I feel no animus toward any of these people.

Strangely enough you can build a Mosque both in the UK and the US. The same cannot be said for the building of a church in Saudi Arabia.

Why should eating pork and wearing bikinis, behind closed doors cause any offense. And why would any European feel uncomfy? Unless of course they start from an anti-American point of view.

Jonathan McCalmont

It's rubbing it in their faces.

You have people who are incredibly poor but who are trying to lead good lives within the teachings of their religion.

Meanwhile you have the westerners who live lives of incomparable luxury seemingly flaunting every one of God's laws AND they have the state defending them.

I don't necessarily agree with their feeling agrieved but I can certainly understand it.

Liam

if you want to talk about rubbing stuff in peoples' face that surely should apply firstly to the House of Al-Saud. The sheer opulence of that family is mind boggling. I lived in London for many years and one of the sights that sticks in my memory is the rear entrance to the Selfridges: the street was always jammed with Mercedes limo's picking up vast quantities of goods for Persian/Arab clients. At the time I was a penniless student. I felt no animosity at all. In fact that sight would usually prompt me to go to the Edgware road for a feast of Middle Eastern food.

After I read your review I did two things:

1. Saw the movie. Average action malarky. I did not see the clash of civilisation point as you did. I saw it as an expression of the futility of the fight between civilisations. I thought the most sympathetic character was the Saudi police colonel: a devoted family man who abhorred bad language and wanted to avenge the deaths of all who were killed, not just his own men.

2. I spoke to the landlord of my local pub. I know he worked in Saudi Arabia for many years after leaving the Air Force. Pork is impossible to get hold of in "Saudi", as he calls it, unless you know someone with black market connections. Second the compounds are usually quite small, and have few guards. Guarding has increased since the 'war on terror' started but it is usually low profile. Most foreigners keep a lowish profile, women do not drive and cover up when out in public. As for poverty, the poorest in Saudi are the immigrant workers from Pakistan and the Philippines or those Saudis from those areas or clans not favoured by the elite.

To single out Americans as an understandable source of grievance is unfair. For me it would be best if all Western Governments decided not to prop up the Al-Saud family and left immediately.

I also question what living a good life is. I cut and pasted the following from Amnesty International's 2003 Report on Saudi Arabia:

"The gravity of this discrimination was highlighted in March by the death of 15 girls and the injury of dozens of others during a fire at a school in Mecca housing 800 girls. There were concerns that the girls may have been victims of the strict application by the Mutawa’een (religious police) of the policy of segregating the sexes. Some eyewitnesses said that the Mutawa’een prevented the girls from escaping because they were not wearing headscarves and because their male relatives were not there to receive them. The Mutawa’een were also said to have prevented rescuers from entering the school because they were men. The government denied the involvement of the Mutawa’een, apparently on the basis of an investigation it had carried out. AI called for a transparent investigation into the incident and the bringing to justice of anyone responsible for the deaths. It did not receive a reply."

Jonathan McCalmont

The Compound in the film is clearly stylised. Ludicrously so.

I grew up knowing people who lived and worked out there and the impression I got was that even though you could do what you wanted to inside the compounds, you still behaved yourself simply because you're a guest in someone else's country.

The compound in the film has Americans doing everything that's liable to offend the local Saudis. Frying pork sausages, sitting around in bikinis, drinking beer and playing baseball.

I'm not sure what the director was trying to achieve with all of that as no real compound is anything like that. I suspect it was going for sympathy with Åmerican viewers, hence my interpretation of the film as pro clash of civilisations.

Broom

Abu Hamza? Weird.

Is there any possibility that the guy they are referring to is not the hook-handed preacher but rather this chap? -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Muhajir

If so, it's still pretty presumptuous. The guy isn't dead yet, after all...

Jonathan McCalmont

Nah... the character's fictional. It's just weird that they'd choose such a high profile name as "Abu Hamza" and then not draw any attention to the similarities.

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