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November 21, 2007

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Comments

Serdar

I admired 300 enormously as entertainment even when I knew objectively that it was twaddle. I didn't mind; the movie succeeded entirely on its own terms, which was to give us a very creatively-visualized spectacle. The idea that anyone could take it seriously as "history" (or, even sillier, "political commentary") seemed a losing proposition from the git-go, so it hardly seemed worth bothering with. The way I put it to a friend was this: As spectacle, it’s unmatched; as cinema, it’s laudable; as drama, it’s passable; as history, it’s absolute bunk. His answer: “Watching 300 to get a history lesson is like watching porn to learn how to have sex.”

What little I've seen of Beowulf, with its disturbingly plastic-looking faces and even more plastic-looking bodies, doesn't compel me to sit down and watch the whole thing except maybe as a catch-up on DVD. I gave high marks to Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within back in '99 because they were trying something that at the time was fairly novel, even if the story was essentially metaphysical goop. But it's been almost ten years since then, and what I'm seeing here is a story which a) didn't need CGI to be told well, and b) probably didn't need to be told at all.

I sometimes give talks about storytelling at a couple of the conventions I go to, and one of the things I hammer on is: A hero is not a hero because the director or author points to him and insists that he's the hero. He's the hero because he behaves like one, and when he's a terminal fathead who creates more problems than he solves, then he's not a hero -- and it's even worse when the movie/book he's in doesn't know that, either.

A.R.Yngve

In my more cynical moments, I suspect the drive toward computer-graphics film is fueled by aging actors and actresses -- who want to keep their CGI avatars jumping around and earning money, while the real persons go into retirement...
;-P

Jokes aside... Jonathan mentions that

"Beowulf essentially has a bloke turn up, fight Grendel, fight his mum and then fight a dragon. Such a structure would not fit a modern film"

... so shouldn't BEOWULF be a TV series instead? Action-based TV shows follow the above pattern perfectly: Bloke turns up, fights henchman, fights henchman's boss,and then the next menace and so on...

Serdar

A.R.: ... or a video game.

Or a movie made from a video game. That uses CGI.

Which gets itself turned into a video game.

Based on a musical.

This joke goes on forever.

Kaolin Fire

I don't really have anything to add to this, except thank you. I think I learned more about Beowulf just now than reading it a few years ago. :)

Elio M. García, Jr.

Just to remark on the source material a bit...

O'Keefe's association of Grendel with the berserkers is a good point, but it does not actually negate the monstrous properties of Grendel as described in the text. To quote one discussion of the source material:

"The terror associated with Grendel is also due to his horrifying appearance. He is called *(th)yrse* (l. 426) and *eoten* (l. 761) for he is a giant in size. From his eyes comes a horrible light, like a flame (*him of eagumstod ligge gelicost leoht unfaegr*, ll. 726b-727). Grendel's hand is like some animal's paw, having claws instead of finger-nails [*foran aeghwyle waes steda naegla gehwylc style gelicost, hae(th)enes handsporu hilderinces egl unheoru*, ll. 984b-987a]."

Also, O'Keefe notes that "aglaeca" (which I think is the word you're looking for, rather than "aelfic") really needs to mean no more than "formidable", which is a more neutral value than "hero" or "wretch". I believe the latest edition of the Old English Dictionary has modified "aglaeca" to this definition. Beowulf, Grendel, and the dragon are clearly all formidable creatures, but the latter two are also explicitly described as monstrous. Their monstrous nature plays a much more central role in Beowulf than in Egil's Saga, as well; in Egil's Saga, the fantastic elements are pretty much right at the beginning, and soon disappear IIRC.

It's true that there is a lot more argument over the nature of Grendel's mother, however, and that the earlier reading is too pat and simplistic. That said, I'm not sure this negates the fantastical nature of a story in which the hero has the strength of thirty men, fights sea monsters, can hold his breath and fight for several days and nights under water, and so on.

The fantastic/heroic elements are definitely central to the story. Beowulf could have just been a good fighter (as Egil in Egil's Saga), but instead he's a superhero (almost literally). Grendel could have just been a nasty raider, but he's a monster (possibly a human monster, but a monster none the less). The hoard could have been protected by a troop of bandits, but instead it's a flame-breathing dragon.

Given your description of Beowulf in the film as a "swollen-headed idiot", I'm not sure about his then being called "objectively good". Similarly, the fact that it seems Grendel's mother is not involved in bringing down Beowulf directly -- that it's his son, perhaps, who connives to create a reason to attack his father -- makes me wonder if she is "objectively bad".

Not yet having seen the film, I have seen the trailer, and there's one bit where Hrothgar seems to be surprisingly ambiguous about Grendel's mother. Something like, "She's not like us any more. Not really." I found that line very intriguing, and it makes me think that the narrative is more complex than a strict black and white interpretation.

As to the last comment, that's a very interesting point. The only thing I would wonder is that isn't it true that heroism is about how one acts in the face of adversity, whereas "heroic lifestyle" is how someone who is able to be heroic lives his day to day existence? You can be a hero _and_ a silly git at the same time, I'm pretty sure. By the sounds of it, Beowulf and his band of warriors are not much unlike some celebrated sports club, gods on the field and loud, spendthrift gits off of it -- being gits doesn't negate their competitive capacity.

Possibly the film doesn't carry this off. Perhaps cinema itself is not capable of, in the span of two hours or less, presenting such a fine delineation between the heroic and the trappings of the heroic, or the fetish and the trappings of fetishism.

Jonathan McCalmont

Hi Elio :-)

Thank you for the excessively learned post. Not being an English scholar, I was trying to go n what I could piece together regarding the scholarship from t'interweb.

Egil's saga clearly has fantastical elements to it. In truth, they're only fantastical from our point of view because in those days they were considered part of the real world. In fact, on page 1 of Egil's saga someone gets described as being a half-troll suggesting that trolls exist.

However, I think there's a difference between something like this film version of Beowulf, which is straight-out fantasy and the sagas which are more embellished tales of real happenings written by people who believed that the fantastical was part of the world.

The Viking sagas really do feature blood feuds over land and people being killed while they're fixing fences but they're still epic and they have fantastical elements. The point I was trying to make was that I suspect that, Dragon not-withstanding, Beowulf has more to do with this kind of story than it does with the modern fantasy.

Montag

You elevate the position of critic with your skilled analysis and are indeed a credit to field :D

When it comes to classical literature and many years of sitting in classrooms and hearing professors lecture on about various esoteric conclusions they've reached from even more esoteric methods of analysis of the work at hand, I've ended up taking the position that most of the time, if it sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck.

In other words, people spinning Grendel's mother from an offensive stereotype of monstrous hag to far more palatable (to modern sensibilities, anyway) 'warrior woman' just tends to sound of reaching, and a lot of it.

The movie was an interesting take on the source material, to be sure, and given that it intended to entertain more than provide some insightful and accurate rendition of a epic historical poem, it doesn't deserve any negative criticism on those grounds.

Current approaches to constructing the modern equivalent of the morality play (not too much reaching I hope?) tend to fall flat due to the inability of many to pick a moral scheme and stick to it. Certainly a 'have cake and eat it too' problem, as you said. Either relative morality is seen as a good, or absolute morality is, or some other form, but switching up the scheme in mid-play just mars the whole film for it.

Jonathan McCalmont

Hi Montag :-)

I'm not sure it's reaching... you just notice that the language describing Grendel's mother is the same as that describing Grendel and Beowulf and you look at source material from similar time-frames and cultural environments and it all links up quite nicely... though I'm not an english or anglo-saxon scholar so I'm just going by intuition.

You're right about morality plays though. They're tricky to construct nowadays as we can allow for several different incompatible and yet internally consistent moral codes. However, you're quite correct that the film shifts from relative morality ("haha... look at the heroes") to absolute morality ("Coward... he should have killed her when he had the chance!") and the result is rather muted.

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