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September 01, 2008

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Heather

>SF fans who would raqther read Stargate Atlantis novels than River of Gods or Light

This observation makes me wonder if some SF don't veer off the beaten path to find books other than what is advertised or placed on bookshelves. It reminds me of radio vs. satellite. Radio presents a limited selection compared to satellite, and yet many people still think radio is all there is to music. So it's partly the readers not seeking out different books, but it's also the corporate conglomerates limiting access/excessively marketing media-tie in books, imho.

And this is the second time in the past week someone's mentioned RIVER OF GODS to me. That's obviously A Sign so I will add it to my TBR list.

Jonathan M

Hi Heather :-)

I remember once seeing a documentary about the rise of hip=hop and a producer said that they key to success was not crossing over from black to white but rather crossing over from cool to non-cool by convincing people with little actual interest in music to buy the CDs.

I think the same is true of books.

Media tie-ins are incredibly visible and branded. If you knew nothing about SF you might well buy them because you recognise stuff you like. HOWEVER, we, as people who know what's going on in the scene (apart from you who has criminally failed to read River of Gods ;-p) we pride ourselves on knowing what's out there and so buying a tie-in feels like a step backwards from cool to un-cool.

Farah Mendlesohn


However, if you asked me to review one of these works I would probably tell you to fuck off.

The reason for this is because I read for reasons that are completely opposite to the main selling points of media tie-ins. I read because I want to be challenged and I want to encounter something new. I do not want familiar characters and places and ideas.


Then you would be wrong and as much of a snob as I once was. Try Karen Traviss's Star Wars Republic Commando: Triple Zero (2006) and tell me it's unchallenging and nothing new.

Jonathan M

Nope. No interest.

1) I can't stand MilSF. It's way too close to my day job. Military thrillers have had horrifying and tangible effects upon the way people think about war and so any work of MilSF is walking a razor's edge from my point of view... either they get it right by saying the right things and adopting the right attitudes and are just about bearable or they get it wrong in which case the books aren't only irritating to me personally, they're drifting into an arena of book that I consider actively harmful.

2) I simply can't bear Star Wars. I was never that huge a fan to start with but nowadays I simply can't sit through it. A mate asked if I wanted to go and see The Clone Wars but just the thought of sitting through an hour of fighting and jedis and space battles made me feel somewhat uneasy.


As a result, putting myself through what is not only a star wars novel but a quite full on MilSF one with terrorist cells and stuff is probably as close as you can get to a cast-iron guarantee that I will not enjoy myself. Furthermore, I read part of City of Pearl a while back and it failed to hold my interest. So while I know a lot of critics have a lot of time for Traviss, the name doesn't sell the book for me.


So... no. I won't read that book. I'm sure it's very good as far as such things go but the chances of me enjoying it are astronomical. Too much can go wrong.

Ian Sales

Er, *Andrei* Tarkovsky.

Isn't the popularity of tie-in books - especially shared universe ones like Star Wars Expanded Universe (or whatever they call it) - well, it's all about "immersion", surely? And readers of non-tie-in genre fiction increasingly want that too: cf the success of Jordan's Wheel of Time, Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen, Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, any paper breezeblock by Peter Hamilton, and the great wall of books Asher's building for his Polity series...

Jonathan M

Hi Ian :-)

Er... yes. In my defence, it was late at night to be writing about Tarkovsky (particularly when I think that Stalker is a deeply problematic film, even when compared with something like Solaris). I shall ake the requisite modification.

I don't know about immersion because I don't understand it.

If immersion is all about wanting the world around you to melt away then surely that's just a question of the book holding your attention. I remember once doing A-level maths homework and looking up to realise that three hours had slipped by without noticing. But I wouldn't say that maths problems are *immersive*.

I'm genuinely not sure whether I understand the term or the psychology. Maybe I just don't experience this sensation when reading. It's a bit like escapism... I can understand that but it's not something I'd want to do or be capable of doing.

Ian Sales

I think I actually prefer Mirror to Stalker and Solaris, but I probably need to watch them a few more times. And I've yet to watch The Sacrifice or Nostalgia...

Immersion... is, I think, more than "wanting the world to melt away". It's the reader's engagement with an invented world - and the richer that world, the more involved, the more *real*, the engagement. It's not what I look for in genre fiction myself, but it's becoming increasingly popular. It's putting the onus on world-building to capture and keep readers, and good characterisation, prose, plotting, etc., are being seen as less important. Immersion may be one reason why fantasy outsells sf.

Jonathan M

Yeah... I know that that is "the line" about immersion but the idea of wanting more and more info about a setting in order to improve the reading experience is so alien to me that I have trouble taking that particular line at face value :-)

mcd

I think people want more and more info about a setting for its own sake, and not for immersion per se. The books you're talking about here are not deep reads, and I would describe the settings themselves as "broad" rather than "deep." Their attraction lies partly in the power, usually visual but not always, of the non-literary medium being tied-in.

Heather

That's very interesting about the hip-hop phenomenon. Explains a lot. When I've read River of Gods, I'll come back here for my Get Out Of Jail Free card!

Farah Mendlesohn

Feel free not to read tie in books, but then you have to refrain from making the kind of comments you did because they are based on ignorance. I have now (thanks to Traviss) read enough tie in novels to be aware that many are not the way you describe.

I don't *enjoy* them, any more than you do, but I refrain from using my lack of enjoyment as a blunt instrument to condemn an entire mode.

Remember the corrollary of Sturgeon's law. If 90% of anything is crap, then 10% of anything is worth regarding carefully.

Jonathan M

And how do I describe them?

"read because I want to be challenged and I want to encounter something new. I do not want familiar characters and places and ideas."

Are you suggesting that tie-in novels are not full of familiar characters, places and ideas? I pointedly don't dismiss them bluntly as all being rubbish. I'm fully aware that excellent authors write them and I'm sure that technically the standards vary as widely as they do across the genre as a whole.

My issue is with ethos. Media tie-ins scratch an itch provoked by people's desire to return to a familiar setting and learn more about it. Obviously some books are going to do this to a greater extent than others (The Zahn wookie books feature most of the characters from the films, Traviss' seemingly do not, or at least not as main protagonists) but media tie-ins are motivated by the desire to return to the cow.

I don't feel that desire ever (as I say above, I don't understand associated ideas such as 'immersion' or 'escapism') and I think that the desire to explore the known rather than strike out for the unknown is a rather unfortunate tendency.

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