TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83451626369e200e553ba722e8833

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Escalation, Failed States and The Dark Knight:

Comments

ShaunCG

Superb review, thanks Jonathan. Makes me want to see the film a lot more than anything else I've read, too!

Jonathan M

Hey Shaun :-) I'm glad you liked the piece. Yes, the film is definitely worth checking out but it is flawed.

Nick

I agree with most of your analysis, although I enjoyed the film a lot more than you seem to have, chiefly on the grounds of spectacle, explodey etc. This point - "One of the problems with American comics, from my perspective, is that they are traditionally wedded to a rather unpleasantly authoritarian mode of problem resolution" - jumped out at me though. It's rather a sweeping (and obviously incorrect) statement to make about American comics, and to be honest I'm not sure you can even make it about American superhero comics. You'd be on much safer ground claiming this about Batman comics specifically, although I can certainly think of many exceptions even within this narrow confine. You suggest the film is being in some way more sophisticated than this by acknowledging the tension between the ethics of heroic story-telling and the modern world, however it's been a central theme running through American superhero comics since the early eighties. The particular theme you mention - that Batman himself may be a more toxic influence on society than the villains he fights - is lifted directly from The Dark Knight Returns, which came out in 1986, in which it is presented, explored and actually resolved in a fashion the film, as part of a summer blockbuster franchise simply can't.

Strongly recommend reading Watchmen before the film comes out.

Jonathan M

Hi Nick :-)

Thanks for dropping by.

I'm familiar with The Dark Knight Returns, as well as Watchmen and History of Violence, all of which explore the relationship between violence and the modern world but it's one thing to say that they explore it and quite another to say that they don't use it.

Watchmen's big reveal is that actually, using big violent heroic forms of problem solving can work, same is true of the two Dark Knight series.

I'd say that that was equivocation rather than sophistication :-)

James

I agree about the stupid sonar gadget, but I liked the action, that's what I want from a summer blockbuster: action + intelligence.

I also felt that the film made it clear that the only reason that the Joker existed was because Batman existed, therefore, at that moment in time, Gotham would have been better off without the Batman.

Jonathan M

Hi James :-)

I find action increasingly tiresome in films. It's so utterly ludicrous that unless it's properly built into the plot or is part of a kind of wider point (as in History of Violence for example) then I just can't be doing with it.

Why is it always necessary to hit people? no wonder America is nuts deep in two foreign wars if all its script writers can think about as a form of conflict resolution is hitting people.

I agree that the point about Batman is in there but then they do end the film with some line about Batman being the hero they need. So I think they flirt with the idea of Batman being a negative force but, as is usual in comic-based stuff, they decide that someone in a costume enforcing his ideal of what society is like is ultimately in some way positive or necessary as opposed to absolutely horrifying.

Nick

> Thanks for dropping by.

No problem. Good to have you back blogging regularly, BTW.

> but it's one thing to say that they explore it and quite another to say that they don't use it.

Well yes, but I didn't say that. Whilst violence is often a feature of superhero comics (as well as action movies, thrillers, quite a lot of SF etc.), you were making specific claims about how it's portrayed and the general ubiquitousness of that portrayal. I can name plenty of American comics that don't feature violence in the way you describe, and indeed many which don't feature violence at all (Ghost World, American Splendour...).

Off the top of my head regarding mainstream superhero comics I'd point to the X-Men, where the superheroics are supposed to be a big PR/outreach exercise to try and counter the real evil, human prejudice against mutants. When the X-Men do employ violence against the agents of human prejudice, it's usually as an entirely defensive last resort (of course, this is mainstream superhero comics so that happens a lot).

> Watchmen's big reveal is that actually, using big violent heroic forms of problem solving can work

Well, I'd argue the reveal you're referring to was that big violent villainous forms of problem solving can work, and then that the actual climax of the book suggests that no, they don't (Doc Manhattan's cryptic comment, Roscharch's journal etc). And crucially, the only two characters in an even vaguely healthy psychological state by the end of the book do actually conclude that violence is futile and their lives as superheroes have essentially been pointless.

> same is true of the two Dark Knight series.

You're certainly on safer ground here, but in my original comment I was referring specifically to the theme of Batman as catalyst for the emergence of supervillains you mentioned in your review, pointing out it is resolved in a way that it's not in the film.

Mind you, I'd argue that whilst Bruce Wayne is certainly still out to circumvent authority in order to accomplish something, it's not entirely clear what methods he's going to use to accomplish it. Certainly the suggestion is he's not going to be as directly confrontational as he has been.

The less said about DK2 the better methinks.

Jonathan M

Hi Nick :-)

Yes, I thought six months off was enough of a break. Also having now met a load more bloggers, I feel better integrated.

You are quite correct about non-violent comics. That was sloppy of me, I was referring to superhero comics specifically rather than to anything else.

I agree about the Xmen too, but as with DKR and Watchmen, I don't think that being aware of the futility of violence but then being forced into it does not really constitute the ringing endorsement of pacifism that I'd feel more comfortable with. Besides, these are all exceptions to the rule, far more comics wind up featuring gigantic smackdowns month in and month out.

Which bit are you referring to in Watchmen? I don't have a copy anymore and I just remember the book ending with New York's "sacrifice" being a light unto the world.

For me, the theme of The Dark Knight is that the state has a monopoly on violence for a reason and that runs very much counter to the logic of heroic story-telling and superhero comics as a whole (though the Civil War series has kind of confronted that issue whilst camouflaging it as something else). I'd argue that if you buy into "real world" sociology as TDK does, then the logical conclusion is that Batman is as big a problem as The Joker. I'm not sure that you can have "real world" sociology and a traditional hero. So I don't see how Batman can move on from this.

Nick

> Which bit are you referring to in Watchmen?

In short: The pirate comic that runs parallel to the main narrative is a story about a man who goes to extreme lengths to protect his family and village, but in the end discovers they are not actually under threat and he has succeeded only in damning himself. In the last few pages Veidt confesses to having dreams that recall imagery from the comic. In conversation with Doc Manhattan he asks him if he did the right thing, given that things worked out all right in the end. Doc Manhattan remarks that nothing ever ends and then vanishes. The final page shows the offices of the right wing newspaper Rorschach has previously corresponded with. They're running to deadline and short of a piece, so decide to run with something from 'the crank file' - the last panel is the assistant reaching towards Rorschach's journal, which contains the details of Veidt's plot and evidence implicating Veidt himself.

Jonathan M

Hmmm...

I had never linked those things up to be honest and I had completely forgotten about Rorschach's journal. So yes... I shall muse on that but I praise your comic-reading-fu for it is more mighty than mine.

Philip Palmer

I also loved this long critique, even though I basked in pleasure watching the film because, what the hell, it's been a tough week and watching a film beats working for a living.

But I was niggled throughout by a great anxiety that there was something missing from the movie, and this review clarifies what that something is; quality. Quality is when the ideas all cohere; quality is when the deadwood is cut away (Chinese accountant stuff, totally not needed!) Quality is when the emotions matter more than the spectacle. (But we'll still have the spectacle.) Quality is when everyone wants to make it the best it can possibly be; and tough choices are made. But in Dark Knight, no tough choices are made; they have their cake, and eat it, and follow it up with cookies. And it's too much.

Quality is about quality of script, first and lastly I'd say (for the script is where the ideas lurk.) Christopher Nolan is a damned fine director; but are he and his brother great writers? Maybe they are, but in that case they needed a script editor to coax and encourage and say 'Cut that bit!'

A screenwriter friend of mine once said that a movie script is like a haiku, it's all about compression. The Dark Knight is more like a movie written by a bunch of guys in a room saying, 'Let's have that! Let's have that too!' It's adding without sieving.

A different version of the story would have had an urgent erotic exchange between Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes early on - not a sex scene, a scene in which we discover they are soul mates forced apart and we think - No! You should be together! Without that scene, there's nothing at stake in the love story.

The different version would also have a better 'Mob money' story (this particular story made no sense - the Chinese guy borrows the Mob's money? Huh?) Maybe the Joker could have GIVEN THE MONEY BACK, and then hired himself out as the hitman who will kill Batman. (Before double crossing the Mob.) And then, in two or three beats, we'd be into the Joker's actual dastardly plan; to undermine the values of society. For if you steal from a gangster and give the money back, you undermine te gangster's code. He is ****ed. He can't fight you, he can't hate you; his gangsterness is undermined. Similarly, if Batman discovers that he is CAUSING MORE CRIME by existing, it undermines his raison d'etre. He would have to have a long dark night (!) of the soul He would have to give up crimefighting.

And -

I should shut up now. It's a dangerous slippery slope, to start script editing movies which I didn't make, and which no one asked me to make.

WANTED, I felt, suffered from the same problems. It's a really good action movie; but it has no hidden guile, no subversive anarchy, and it doesn't shock the soul as the graphic novel did. But if you make a multiplex action movie, you have no room for manoeuvre, in creative terms. (Though Jon Favreau managed to give Iron Man some special qualities.)

But, big sucker as I am, I do like the action stuff and forgive a lot.

Just discovered this site. Very impressed. Love the Alternative movie Hugos, and will seek out the films I haven't seen yet.

Jonathan M

Hi Philip :-)

"Quality" is definitely the right word for it. There are some lovely ideas in The Dark Knight but there's a real failure to make the whole thing cohere into a single piece. I suspect that there must have been re-writes as it feels like an early draft rather than a finished product.

I also agree that the Joker's relationship with the gangsters was poorly thought out. Initially it feels like an American Gangster/The Wire-style new, more violent criminal emerging and taking over but then later he kind of flirts with them and there's that bit with the Chinese accountant that makes no sense. So I suspect that it was a larger plot-line in a previous version of the script.


I haven't read the Wanted graphic novel but the film is very much by the numbers. The "Big Reveal" of the weavers being evil was entirely predictable, in this day and age you couldn't have a film which revolves around the good guys unaccountably murdering people who happen to be in the way and taking instructions from a loom?

Glad you liked the site and thanks for the comments. Nice to have input from an actual script-writer :-)

The comments to this entry are closed.